School of Moxie Podcast – Season 1, Episode 9 Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to the School of Moxie podcast brought to you by Sensible Woo. This is the podcast where we break the mold around business podcast conversations. We make it fun around here by using television, movies, and entertainment as a jumping off point for conversations about how we navigate the world as individuals.
I’m your host, Mary Williams, and I’ve been an online creator since 2010. I’ve seen a lot of trends come and go over the years, but one thing that has persisted is a struggle among entrepreneurs to connect more authentically with their audiences. As a business systems process and operations coach, I’ve seen how much my clients and subscribers have benefited from learning how to incorporate their fun sides.
So we’re going to demonstrate this for you here on this podcast through analogous thinking. Not only that, but we’re using media and entertainment as the lens through which we reflect on our own desires and strengths. Fiction is the vehicle that gives us words to articulate our value systems and tells people who we are.
I find that a lot of my
[00:01:00] audience and probably yours as well struggle to find words for their problems until they start thinking about how to use analogies. Analogies help us build bridges between something we can describe into a new area that we are in the process of developing. As humans, we are a languaged species, which means we find context and meaning in our lives through the ability to put our feelings into words.
This podcast is going to help you normalize this process and see how it’s done in real time as my guests talk through their own experiences in relation to the episodes they’ve been assigned for this show. Our first season of this podcast is centered on the first season of the HBO original series The Last of Us, based on the video game of the same name.
Consider this your official spoiler alert. On this podcast, my guests are going to jump right into the conversation, and we’re going to spill all the tea on the story and the plot. So if you enjoy being surprised, I encourage you to watch the episode first before listening to our discussion. Before we get into this week’s episode, have I
[00:02:00] told you about the weekly readings that I create for entrepreneurs
just like you each and every week. I am an Akashic Records and Tarot reader, and I’ve been giving clients intuitive guidance coaching for just about 20 years now. That’s a long time. I know that most readers out there don’t focus on your business needs. So that’s where I come in. Readings with me are
only about your business development. And it helps you feel more aligned with your intuitive messages so that you can incorporate those gut feelings and inner knowings into your business data for better results. Click the link in the show notes and subscribe to my weekly email updates, where you can get a free reading sent to your inbox every single week.
If you want more, you can subscribe to the weekly extended readings, which are just 9 dollars per month and help you get focused on your business energy every week. No more Sunday scaries. You’ve got this better in hand than you know, and I’ll help you see it. Now let’s get watching and talking. This episode of The
[00:03:00] Last of Us is titled Kin.
In episode number six in the show, it has one of the most beautiful monologues I’ve seen in quite some time. Golf claps for Pedro. I’ve invited Peya Robbins to have this discussion with me because we are local biz besties and we talk a lot about our family caregiving and all the messy dynamics that go along with it.
As business owners, none of us get to ignore our everyday lives. They come along for the ride in all of our entrepreneurial activities, whether we like it or not. Peya is a dedicated entrepreneur, passionate about partnering with visionary entrepreneurs who seek to make a difference in how the world works while staying true to themselves.
Her client’s biggest challenge is the belief that they must follow the status quo to succeed. She shields her clients from business noise and creates a safe space for them to innovate on their own terms and thrive. Through her company, Peya supports clients in confidently launching new offers and acquiring new clients, ultimately driving their personal and professional growth.
By working with Peya, entrepreneurs can break free from limitations, disrupt conventional wisdom,
[00:04:00] and make a lasting impact in the world. Peya, welcome to the show and thank you for being one of my very first guests who is holding space for better business conversations.
[Peya] Thank you so much for having me.
[Mary] Well, you and I have been biz busties. I mean, we hang out all the time, so this conversation might get a little raunchy.
[Peya] Yes.
[Mary] Um, so your episode was the, you were the only person I could give this episode to. Because we talk about family stuff all the time.
[Peya] All the time.
[Mary] You have family, I have family. You care give for little ones, I care give for older ones.
And it, it’s disruptive.
[Peya] That’s a nice way, that’s a nice word to use to put it, yeah.
[Mary] Well we haven’t activated the… .
[Peya] Yeah.
[Mary] Right on the podcast.
[Peya] Yes.
[Mary] Um, so, so what I wanted to do was pull out some key points for this episode because what we wanna do is really show other entrepreneurs and by us kind of just thinking aloud and recording on the mic and all it’s messy imperfection.
I know somebody out there is gonna be like, oh my gosh, that’s me, . This really helps. So, um,
[00:05:00] One of the really big key points in, in your episode that you watched is that when real life catches up to your intended mission, how do you adjust your big why when life throws you curve balls? And the thing that I was thinking is that because the pressure of entrepreneurial journey, of the entrepreneurial journey is heavy, it’s not stress free even when we want it to be.
Enter stage left, mental health and self care needs. And this is the first episode when we see Joel, who’s our protagonist, and he’s having like honest to God panic attacks. And he’s like actually finally suffering the effects of stress. And you would think that like he would have started noticing this sooner, but it’s taken 20 plus years for him to like have panic attacks start to catch up with him.
And it really made me think about things that you and I talk about regularly, which is like what are our bodies telling us? So I’m wondering, you know, when physical being is such a huge part of the
[00:06:00] entrepreneurial path, you know, do you think that Joel’s and Ellie’s bond grows because Joel’s finally able to talk about his experience with Tommy?
He has that beautiful monologue when he’s trying to fix his stinking shoe, which he should not be doing.
[Peya] Just get new shoes.
[Mary] But I feel like, what does that mean for us as entrepreneurs? Like, if we’re the Joel’s in this situation, who are our Tommy’s and who are our Ellie’s?
[Peya] I swear that I knew that you were going to ask it that way, that you were going to bring this up that way, and I’m going to venture to say that that’s the wrong way to think about it.
[Mary] Go.
[Peya] Because I think the reason that I love this episode so much and I enjoyed watching it and just was able to go back and re-watch it and re-experience those same feelings. It’s because a part of me is Joel, a part of me is Tommy, a part of me is Maria, and a part of me is Ellie. We are all…
Navigating this
[00:07:00] existence of life and being caregivers and being nurturers, whether in our families, to ourselves and to our clients, and we ping pong how each of these characters are portrayed. I mean, it’s so, so interesting because him having a panic, I, and I very quickly realized what was happening.
And when he goes, Oh, it’s just an air of cold. No, bitch, you’re fucking dying. Finally, you’re letting like a piece of something in where you’re like, all right, this is too much. It’s too much. Because frankly, if you’re paying attention to the show, it’s fucking too much. It’s just too much. And at some point, you’re gonna either completely break down and be useless to everyone that you’re taking care of, which is a huge fear.
I mean, we talk about that all the time. Where, you know, overwhelm and, you know, all these buzzwords that are thrown around in entrepreneurship and really, like, it’s terrifying. Because
[00:08:00] I know that if all my clients walk tomorrow, how’s my kid gonna eat? How is my husband? Like, there are very real things happening in my life.
And in my business that require all of these systems to work and it was just beautiful to watch him in that moment and and his whole failing in my sleep and not like I wreck I’ve said those things before I’ve described those experiences before I very quickly like I’m getting goosebumps now because very quickly I was like, Oh, yeah.
That was Tuesday, or that was January 7th, blah, blah, blah year when this was happening. It’s all the same brain. All this operates in the same brain. He’s here as Ellie’s protector. He’s mourning Tess. He’s mourning Sarah still, because that doesn’t go away. Yeah. I could, I mean, I’ve had a miscarriage, so like you never stop mourning that loss ever.
It, it gets better, quote unquote better, but like you never stop.
[00:09:00] Those things are just part of you.
[Mary] I feel like it gets duller.
[Peya] That’s a good word. I like that.
[Mary] Like it, it’s, it’s less sharp, less focused,
[Peya] Less neck stabby. And it’s like, just mild poking.
[Mary] I love that.
You put that about, you know, how the characters reflect all these different nuances and parts of ourselves. For the people who end up watching alongside while they Um, I think it’s going to be real interesting for people to go back and see themselves reflected in the different scenes and in the different perspectives.
I loved this episode so much because there were enough characters doing different things. Like, it wasn’t just Joel and Ellie in the woods or something.
[Peya] I mean, those are great.
[Mary] Those were so great, too. The coffee scene.
[Peya] She’s amazing.
[Mary] She’s fantastic. Um, but I loved meeting new, new characters. Maria, I thought she was awesome.
I’m like, I
[00:10:00] want to know you more. And I feel like those kinds of things reflect back to us maybe qualities that we wish we were bringing more on an everyday level. I watched Maria and I was like, she’s had some hard stuff. She’s had a child die. She’s lived through the same crazy pandemic and they’ve started this whole commune and like…
[Peya] Oh my gosh, we’re communists.
[Mary] We’re communists. And the woman’s got some skills, you know, and… And I love that they introduced, um, the notion of sisterhood in this. Everybody including you were also tasked with a lot of homework. Thank you for doing it. And one of it was listening to the official podcast and the show’s creators
they talk about having, okay, I’m going to lead you through this conversation.
[Peya] No, I, I remember they’re very. Clear moments from Craig speaking in that podcast where I was like, Oh, this is, I, I saw that I saw what you wanted to deliver. Like I saw it before I knew this existed.
[00:11:00] Before I heard this, so that was great.
[Mary] Well, the attention to detail is so good, and I love that they brought up it’s the first time you get to see some sisterhood that’s in here because these people in this commune are like the first people you’ve met who are not running through fight or flight.
[Peya] No, they’ve rebuilt.
[Mary] They’re actually thriving.
[Peya] Yep.
[Mary] And there’s a moment to like actually take care of each other and appreciate art and go to the movies and one thing that I really, really appreciate about this show In terms of caregiving, they caregived, the showrunners, the show creators caregived to their characters by writing in those tiny little detailed bits about menstruation.
And like, you know, no shade to The Walking Dead, I know there’s a lot of fans out there. It was not my favorite.
[Peya] I never watched that.
[Mary] I just thought it was a little too gratuitous and dead zombies. But, um, I, I, I’ll tell you how I really feel. Um, I, I, I loved that
[00:12:00] Ellie’s like looking for tampons and then she meets a woman who can finally help her and gives her a diva cup.
It’s a form of caregiving and we see like a positive form of caregiving instead of like a desperate form of caregiving. And I just think like as entrepreneurs, like our world may not be as dramatic as.
[Peya] It can feel that way, it definitely has felt that way for me, a lot of times where I’m just like, well, this is, this is how it ends.
I’ll wait outside for the aliens to come get, get me.
[Mary] You’ve got a go bag packed.
[Peya] But there was so much beauty behind the message of Maria too, because she, what she, we learned in the show that she was a, a former ADA. And she offers to give Ellie a haircut and she has lost a child and when she’s talking about how they’re, she doesn’t run Jackson, she is, they’re elected to the board.

[Mary] Yeah.
[Peya] Like, and children are allowed to vote. She, cause she says like
[00:13:00] everybody votes these people in. This is not a person who had, who was a lawyer. And that’s her only frame of life. She enjoys cutting hair. How would you know you enjoy cutting hair? Unless you spend time cutting hair. She’s this very well rounded to turn it back to entrepreneurship, a polymath.
Is that what you do? Like not. I can’t stand the word multi passionate anymore.
[Mary] If I hear it one more time, I’m going to poke my eyeballs out.
[Peya] Oh my gosh. Like send the mushrooms to kill me because my gosh. But polymath is like when you have multiple, I think, skill levels or you’re.
[Mary] I think that’s the term.
[Peya] Whatever. She did a lot of shit. Basically. She was not this like one. She wasn’t this person with one skill, she could do lots of stuff, clearly is helping to run this town, and can, can also open herself up to have relationships, which is huge.
[Mary] Huge.
[Peya] That’s, I think, my favorite part about her. This woman has lost
[00:14:00] probably everything, and still is open to having a baby.
Um, with a, a person she just met a few years ago. Are you wild? That’s insane to me.
[Mary] I mean, it really speaks to being able to carve out a space of safety.
[Peya] Yes.
[Mary] You know, now the next thing that we’re going to get sick of is trauma informed.
[Peya] I’m already there. I’m already there.
[Mary] But along that line. You know, a lot of our, our entrepreneurs that you and I both work with are struggling, I think, to heal their own trauma, looking for a safe space.
[Peya] They’ve all hit their Joel point, their cold air point, where, all right, we’ve heard these same terms thrown around, we’ve all paid for the coaching programs, we’ve all done the VIP, whatever, whatever. And now it’s like, all right, I have now felt the cold air. And I’m fucking done with this. And now
[00:15:00] my decision is, do I continue this thing that I started because I loved and because it made me happy and let me live the life, quote unquote, that I wanted to live, or do I go fix up my resume and go get myself a job?
Which a lot of people, especially in your world, a lot of people have just done. And there’s no shame in that. It’s easier. I think about it constantly, especially now that I’m going through this like unintentional pivot. I’m like, fuck man. Do I just, I know a lot of people who could look at my resume and like fix it up.
And now I saw the TikTok that was like, Oh, if you ever have gaps in employment, just tell them that you can’t talk about it because you signed an NDA. And I was like. That’s fucking brilliant. I don’t have to explain anything to anyone.
[Mary] I think our entrepreneurial paths give us a lot more pivot ability
than it gets sold to us when we’re inside that entrepreneurship bubble.
[Peya] We think it’s one track and one like one end goal. This is the only way maybe you can veer off here once you get to
[00:16:00] this level, but ultimately you’re facing the same way. And that’s just not how it, it sold to us that way.
But that’s not how it happens.
[Mary] Oh no.
[Peya] And then you add family. And kids and trauma and healing and all these other things and it’s like, yeah, this is a lot. It’s a lot.
[Mary] I feel like that’s what Tommy did.
[Peya] He was like, I need a day job. I’m, I’m, I’m out. You need a builder? Guess what? I used to do that. Let me go build this thing for you.
Oh, and when Joel was talking about like contractors, I was like, I love a good guy. You know how I have a soft spot for real estate, but like, yeah, love a contractor.
[Mary] That conversation was so cute. He’s like, yeah, we were totally cool.
[Peya] The contractor. She’s so funny. Ellie is. It’s so beautifully depicted in the show.
[Mary] I, one of my favorite scenes in the entire series comes from your episode where he’s teaching her how to shoot.
It’s just, it’s so great where she’s like, are you going to shoot or are you going to get it pregnant? But it’s so true. When you, when, if you’re going to have
[00:17:00] good aim, like you got to squeeze the trigger gently. You got to love it.
[Peya] And that happens after, right? When he falls asleep on launch and she, I, I wrote that part down cause I thought it was amazing.
And she’s like, Oh, I got the high ground. I check for tracks, blah, blah, blah. And then she’s like, like, like you showed me, like you taught me. And I was like, oh, that’s so beautiful. Look at her growing. I think that’s why it works because Joel is having this shift and Ellie’s having this shift. And Tommy has had his shift and now has to explain his shift to his past.
Everything he healed from, he had to bring all that up to be able to explain it, which I think is the sign of true, oh, I’m over this. Because we say we’re over it, and we’re not.
[Mary] But we’re not.
[Peya] Oh my gosh, somebody breathed on us the wrong way and we’re right back there.
[Mary] I feel like Tommy reminds me of so many of our entrepreneurs right now, this year, who are, like, afraid to tell
[00:18:00] their masterminds that they just got a W-2 job.
[Peya] I’ve outgrown you. This is not for me. I’ve learned that this is not for me. And that phrase is all the explanation you need to get. If any. Because you know me, I would not. But I’ve outgrown this, or this is not for me. The end. And if anybody gives you shit, you punch them in the face and you keep moving.
Like, I just don’t know what else there is out there. You can’t control that whole living, oh my gosh, when, uh, not just because you’re, the episode is like rushing back to me. Just because your life has stopped, or that whole baby conversation? I guess we’ll see. If somebody had said that to me. It would have been on site.
It would have been on site. We would have been in a brawl immediately.
[Mary] I feel like it’s a sign of how much Tommy’s been able to carve out peace for himself. So if
[00:19:00] Joel and Tommy were entrepreneurs, Joel’s an entrepreneur who just like, can’t stop fighting for… nothing. And Tommy’s like, I got a day job. I’m peaceful now.
And he doesn’t react to Joel in the same way that Joel wants to react to him. He doesn’t feed the fire. He lets him walk out the door.
[Peya] Because he found something else. He found something for himself.
[Mary] He found a bigger purpose. He found a bigger purpose and that thread of finding your purpose, the thread of finding, you know, where your true fire comes from is showing up in a lot of the episodes that we’re all recording.
And I’m curious to see how in the end when we’re done with our conversations that we all notice how those dots really connect, but I feel like Tommy’s one of the really big dots.
[Peya] Tommy’s a, he’s a huge dot. And the fact that that house was open, the house that they put them in number
[00:20:00] 38 is across the street from them.
Tommy’s always, can’t nobody convince me otherwise.
[Mary] He’s been waiting.
[Peya] Tommy’s been waiting for Joel.
[Mary] He’s been waiting for his brother.
[Peya] Because there’s no way to get full closure, I don’t think. Until you, you have to at some point face that. And for a lot of people, it happens after that person has gone and left from this earth.
But there’s always that hope of like, I mean, especially in this situation, right? Tommy doesn’t know. He’s off the radio. He has no idea where Joel is. As far as he knew, he’s with Tess somewhere. Doing what Joel and Tess do. And to have the opportunity to be able to confront him and just, this is my life now.
I really don’t care if you accept it or not. And still being willing to help and not offer. He was voluntold basically to take Ellie. I don’t know. It was, it was really, I see myself a lot in Tommy more than I do Joel in this episode. And when I see Joel and how he reacts to everything in this episode.
I’m like, Oh yeah, that’s the shit that I’m like, still, it’s in my to do pile. I have not really.
[Mary] Panic attacks are in your to do pile.
[Peya] I mean, that’s the stuff that I’m going through. I can’t, full disclosure, I have panic attacks all the time. And now they’re just part of my existence all the time. And I can feel when they’re coming and I, that whine when he saw the curly hair from behind.
[Mary] Oh, that scene.
[Peya] So beautifully done. I really do love all the sad shit about the show.
[Mary] They paid attention to so many details.
[Peya] So many details.
[Mary] But one thing that I find interesting is, you know, hearing you talk about how you’re really identifying with Tommy, and with Tommy having that street across the house, it’s like somebody who, like, holds out hope, holds continues to make space for the thing that you hope will come in.
[Peya] Well, he has evidence. He has evidence that there’s a way past it because he’s done it, he’s gotten past it. So there’s always hope for the people you love to also see that in their own way. That doesn’t, I
[00:22:00] mean, it hasn’t happened for me, TBD, but.
[Mary] Do you feel like you still, like in a proverbial sense, hold a house open across the street hoping that,
[Peya] Um, I, I want to say yes, but it’s not for everyone.
I think now, I don’t think, I know that now it’s not for everyone that I’ve left behind. Because I’ve definitely left people behind and encountered a million and one different things in my 20 moves in 10 years, but I don’t think, I mean, the house is open for a very small amount of people. And now that I’m really thinking about it, not blood relatives.
[Mary] Isn’t that interesting?
[Peya] So interesting.
[Mary] I mean, all of them are chosen family. With, I mean, well, the exception of Tommy and Joel, but yeah. But I also think it’s interesting that Jackson has this huge walled gate. And I feel like that’s kind of what we’re starting to do. That’s what I do. In our communities, because we’re like, you are not
[00:23:00] allowed in.
[Peya] That whole having dogs, and if you, yes, I’m the dog, though. Yes, I’m not just letting you in because we know each other. Yeah. But for Maria, it was different because when he said his name and she, it was instinctual. That was mama bear, like, Oh, we can’t F with them anymore. Like just throw them on a horse. No, give them each their own horse.
It’s fine. You walk. It was so good. It was so well done.
[Mary] Yeah, she knew exactly who they were. So good. Okay, I have, I have another key point that I pulled up from this, which is, do we really know what our audience needs from us? And the way I kind of looked into this is that, you know, when Joel shows up, Tommy’s doing just fine in Wyoming.
[Peya] I’m here to save you.
[Mary] He’s like, I’m here to save you. I want to know… from your perspective, like, what do we do when this happens with our clients? Like, we think we’re saving them, like, we chase after them. We’re like, let me help you. Let me love you.
[00:24:00] It’s like that meme, let me love you. But what are they actually showing us about ourselves?
And I, I just feel like there’s, there’s this huge analogous point in there. I feel like Joel embodies those business people who are like, I got to go on this big quest because they, they can’t do it without me. They can’t survive without me. And then spoiler alert. You finally get there
[Peya] And that person is done with what you’re trying to show them.
[Mary] They’re fine.
[Peya] They’re just fine. They’ve either mastered it or figured out this isn’t for me and did something else. Like they did it on their own. All the, all the work that they had to do. I don’t think that we know what people want. I think we know what we want them to want from us because we feel like that’s the only thing that we can give them.
One of the things that I have learned in my wallflower ness. And not wanting to be out there and definitely not putting myself out there is that the
[00:25:00] more honest you are about yourself and your journey, that is how you find your community. There’s no AI that’s going to write a script. There’s no email sequence.
There’s no social media schedule that’s going to bring your people to you. Unless you’re talking about, like, that stuff just has to come from you. People will find what they relate to in that, because in the very few instances where I’ve actually I guess what other people will call to be vulnerable and for me, it’s just like if you ask me a question, I’m going to answer you, even if it’s something dark and twisty and hidden in my path.
It’s it’s a thing that’s made me who I am. And if I share that if I share my experience or I answer your question with context from my own life, it’s like, oh, I’ve also been through that. Oh, I’ve also, it’s, it’s the whole going back to the Diva Cup, like it’s that where we know that this thing is happening.
There’s no way half of the
[00:26:00] population is not worrying about this in an apocalypse. But we’re going to talk about it. And it’s, it’s so, it’s such a simple and small thing, I feel like, to just relate what you’re doing to your life. Like, I relate things to being a mom and being a Dominican mom and being a Dominican mom who runs a business and is like an entrepreneur.
There’s so many things that have made me who I am and inform the choices that I make. Are they always the right choices? No, but that’s true of anything. I could have a job and that would be the same.
[Mary] Well, your connection points are in the nuances of your life. Right. And to ourselves, I think usually those nuances are harder to see, you know, when you’re so close to it.
It’s hard to see the forest through the trees. And so we need people outside of us to reflect things back to us.
[Peya] Right, but do you want fake people reflecting back to you what they think? Do you want, for me, it’s do I want men telling me about my life and my lived experience?
[00:27:00] Absolutely the fuck not.
Absolutely not.
[Mary] I want my gated community.
[Peya] Facts. With dogs. With the application process. Sniffing dogs. Mushroom sniffing dogs. Yes, thank you. Bullshit sniffing dogs. That’s what I want. And a judgy cat when you come sign your paperwork.
[Mary] Okay, this is really, I know I can say this to you, but the whole time, you know I’m a cat lover, I’m like, why does nobody have a pet in this world?
All the sheep though. And his whole bullshit about wanting to be a shepherd, because we’re ingrained to be nurturers. And then, I want to be a musician, yeah, okay.
[Mary] But also like, saying out loud the safer path.
[Peya] When you know that it’s not true because you’re told like you have to say these things. I want to be a TEDx speaker.
I want to be a keynote speaker. When realistically that is nowhere near the realm of the things that you want to be doing because you want to run retreats and you want to find awesome Airbnbs that are, unknown in like a hidden
[00:28:00] country with no Wi Fi and take a group of people to go dance naked under a moon. But you’re going to say in that very overpriced mastermind that you’re a part of I want to be a keynote speaker I want to talk about how business is going to change the world.
No, the fuck it’s not. People are going to change the world, not business.
[Mary] In that world, being a sheep farmer is productive.
[Peya] Right? It’s useful. It’s helpful. It’s contractory.
[Mary] But yet there’s evidence of this community that is not living in fight or flight and they can appreciate art. If they can appreciate a moveie they can appreciate a musician.
[Peya] So, they’re going where? And then she’s sitting in the room with all those like, and it was a bunch of kids. So many kids. Oh, many kids. I was like, oh. Man, Ellie is so me though, because when she was eating that food and who I think we’ll find out is, uh, Dina.
[Mary] Everybody knows it’s Dina. Yeah. They’re trying not to spoil it.
[Peya] Whatever. Sure.
[Mary] This is spitting image of her. Yeah, I thought that was great. I thought that was great. A little like Easter egg for like the real fans. to see that. Um, also, anybody who knows like season two of the game, I believe Ellie has a horse named Shimmer and she met Shimmer in this episode as a brand new little baby.
[Peya] That was sweet.
[Mary] It’s like those little moments and we kind of take them for granted and hey, do you think that a lot of us in our business journeys err on the side of survivalism? And for what?
[Peya] That’s why we started our businesses, right? To not be in that. To not be paycheck to paycheck and surviving in that way and not beholden to someone else’s scheduling of our lives.
And then we, we just, it’s all we know. So that is how we built our businesses. Because we didn’t have another. I mean, there’s rare instances where someone comes from a long
[00:30:00] line of entrepreneurs and they have experience, they can see that through them. But then, there’s us who came from just, I mean, my parents are hustlers, so I don’t, I don’t know if that fits for me, but I didn’t have an example of someone running their own show, really, because my mom definitely did things on her own.
She carved her own path for sure, but there, it was a complicated carve. Carving out of that path. She was navigating becoming a citizen to this country. She was navigating raising a bunch of tiny people, and feeding a bunch of tiny people, and one of those tiny people being me, who was super fucking difficult when it came to, because I didn’t want to do those things, so I was like, I have to go to all the best schools, I have to go, I have to study, I have to join every single extracurricular thing, so I can get out.
I, I was that Tommy, like, there was something better. There was something better.
[00:31:00] And you know, it took a long, I took a, definitely the long way to find it, but I feel like I’m… On the path, like I know where it is, I’m finally physically safe in my life, I feel like, oh, I can, I can be here. Things, things are going hard, but I can be here.
[Mary] I would say you’ve arrived.
[Peya] Somebody else that I know uses that term for me all the time as well. And I’m always like, uh, are you sure? Because my GPS tells me to go around the block.
[Mary] Well, it’s funny because like, even in the episode, I think Tommy still has a little bit of that too.
[Peya] Because he had, I mean, now, I think, is where he will, finally, like, this is his last hump confronting Joel.
Yeah. It’s his last hump. He doesn’t forget. He’s still mourning Sarah as well. Like, he wrote her name. He didn’t have to share anything about that. He could have just talked about Joel.
[Mary] I want to pivot into another sort of key tentpole point in this whole thing that I feel relates so much to entrepreneurship
[00:32:00] right now.
And that is a pivot towards private off grid, what I call off grid communities, which Jackson is totally an off grid community here. Like they’re not on the radio or nuttin. They don’t want anyone to find them.
For entrepreneurs because Joel and Ellie they trek across the United States and they find there’s a community that doesn’t want to be found And I think that we may not be in an in an apocalyptic story But there is definitely a shift happening with communities protecting themselves with increasingly higher gates.
So how does this help but also hurt the larger collective? And I’m thinking about things like Discord communities and people leaving Facebook and
[Peya] Facebook is terrible.
[Mary] Yes. I mean, agreed.
[Peya] It’s fucking terrible. It’s been terrible for a long time. For a long time. I don’t know that I would, I mean, I go to Facebook, but I, I don’t think that that’s a sustainable place.
People that are solely on Facebook, I’m immediately like, mm, are you?
[Mary] I’ve stopped signing up for
[00:33:00] programs if they say, we run a Facebook community.
[Peya] Yeah, I’m like, mm, that’s not, this must not be my people then. Cause I definitely can’t be on there. Even, even through all the cleanup of like Facebook through election cycles.
I was in Wisconsin when I was like, oh yeah, this is unsafe for me. I can’t be on here anymore. I don’t know. I’m, I’m an Aquarius weirdo. I love that people are reinforcing their walls. I fucking love it. Kudos to, if you’re running something and you have, your checkpoints are like 20 different stages, fucking kudos to you.
Also tell me about it because I might be your people, but I love that. I love that. You’re not just letting anyone in because one person Can absolutely fuck up your shift. It can, it, it, it takes only one person.
[Mary] Well, we see evidence
[Peya] to mess up the vibe.
[Mary] We see evidence of that in this show in an analogous sense.
where whole quarantine zones, whole QZs have crumbled because
[00:34:00] somebody decided to go out and become infected and bring it in through the walls. And I feel like that happens in our business communities where somebody comes in and, you know, they’re passive aggressive or they are not a good team player.
[Peya] Not a good team player. All about them. All about.
[Mary] And they poison the community. You and I have left communities. Oh my,
[Peya] Wo many communities. Because that has happened. Why, why is it like, this is not what you sold me.
[Mary] There was one where I remember you texted me. You were like, what is she saying in that Slack channel?
[Peya] Listen, I know exactly, we’re not going to talk about it. But like, I know exactly who you’re talking about. And it is, it’s one thing to be yourself. And just come as, with all your business garbage. And your junk, and your luggage, everything. Please be honest when you’re coming to these spaces. And, don’t be the problem.
Because everything that, that woman was saying, she was the problem I’m like, okay, but, like,
[00:35:00] you’re saying the quiet parts out loud. You are the issue here. What are you you want us to get mad at them? For what?
[Mary] No.
[Peya] And I that’s what I remember. I distinctly remember texting you, because I was like, maybe I’m dumb.
Am I reading this correctly? So no, please. Reinforce. Dig out the moat. Get the crocodiles. Let’s go. I don’t think there’s a problem with that. You have to protect your, it’s your, when you build a community, it’s your responsibility to protect the people in that community. You are offering them a space. And I’m gonna need you to hold that space.
Accordingly. I don’t know. It’s very strange when people just let, when I see things, they’re like, oh, it’s open to the public. No, the fuck it’s not. Not for me. Well, Tonya Kubo, who’s doing an episode, um, with us this season, and you’ve met Tonya.
[Peya] I love her community.
[Mary] So, Tanya’s a community person. Um, her take on it is that people increasingly are afraid of saying things
[00:36:00] in spaces that potentially become public statements, and they’re getting nervous about it.
So, they’re starting to go along.
[Peya] Say more. What kind of things?
[Mary] Mostly political. and it can go one way or the other. I found a lot of racists. I found a lot of all lives matter people in, on Facebook, in Facebook group, and I’m like, oh, wow. I would never have, but as I’m unblocking you, I’m, I’m like, I’m blocking you.
I mean, I would have those thoughts. I’m just like, Hmm. And then when I would see two or more, And I’m like, Oh, the whole space has to go throw the whole thing away because there’s no way.
[Mary] I feel like these are the symptoms that we’re starting to get to see.
[Peya] Right. And once that happens one or two times, then it’s, it’s instinct to want to protect what you have.
What are you going to let your whole community implode that you’ve built? This is your business. This is your entire business model is this group of people together.
[00:37:00] And you’re just going to let some dummy from outside just come in here and just say, no, thank you. Or from the inside. From the inside, I think it’s worse because they’ve now hoodwinked everyone.
[Mary] Well, I think that’s why a character like Maria is so wary of someone like Joel. She’s heard the stories. He comes with a reputation. He’s got this young girl with him.
[Peya] Just because you have a bad reputation doesn’t mean you’re bad. Don’t. Joel is fine. He’s a little panicky. He’s a little panicky. But he’s fine.
[Mary] Poor dude’s been through a lot.
[Peya] The whole planet has been through a lot. Everyone has been through a lot. But some people are willing to do something else with that and start the healing. There’s never healed, but you start the healing.
[Mary] It’s not healing. I’ve really been trying to like, dig into this lately, personally.
I feel like it’s finding more peace. Like, you can coexist with
[00:38:00] all the shit around you and still be at peace, and to me that’s healed. Healed. In quotes.
[Peya] I don’t, I don’t know that you ever find that end point. I think it’s always something. I don’t think you ever outgrow, or outgrow? Is that the right? I don’t know.
Like, I don’t think there’s an end to this. I’m never going to. Get to the end of my life. I mean, I will in this physical body, but not, I think my entire life will be me just gently unpacking. I think you find a peaceful cadence of how to unpack that. I do like the word peace. Like, it is, it becomes, it becomes less triggering.
Another phrase, another word that I just am so sick of. But it just becomes less of that, less jarring, less less stabby and more dull poking. Maybe that’s the words that we should use.
[Mary] Less stabby.
[Peya] Less stabby. Yeah. Says the
[00:39:00] rogue who plays a, a, from the shadows, stabby, stabby person everywhere she goes.
There’s a lot about this episode and the book that for me was quite healing. Including that I have all these things that I’m working through and towards and I have goals and I, Um, you know, from where I came from, where I am and where I want to be, and I realized that for my family, I am like this, my generation, my, my, my siblings and I are the people who are either going to die with regret.
I will not be that person, by the way, spoiler alert, um, or going to die with just that. Oh, I fixed it. I did it. Because all of my parents grandchildren are girls. And you know, girls don’t carry the name. I carry the name of my father until I met my husband and carry his name. We’re all girls. No one is carrying on
[00:40:00] my family name.
So it’s, I see that as a way of like, okay, so I have to unfuck this. There’s no other person that’s going to do it, and I’m not letting my kid do it. And I see a lot of that, and I, you and I have this conversation all the time when people are fucking talking about all their nonsense, and I’m like, this is the same brain, the same brain that I run my business with, the same brain that I came to record this episode with, is the same brain
that’s going to go have a date with my daughter after here and all of those things inform each other and the way I feel in my personal life and the way I feel when I’m alone is the way I feel like that comes into my business meetings and when I’m, you know, doing whatever X task in my, in my business for my clients, it’s like, it’s all informed and it’s my job and opportunity now to find some finalization, find some like, These are the end points to all these like super bad things and you can go on.
Like Joel is trying to
[00:41:00] find answers so that Ellie can go on. Oh, when he calls her baby girl like that.
[Mary] Oh God.
[Peya] That was like his moment of, I, this is terrible. This is all fucking terrible, all of it. But I promise that you’ll, you know, I’m doing this for you.
[Mary] Yes. Well his peaceful point, healing point, comes out of pain.
And I love that you
[Peya] So much, so much pain.
[Mary] and I love that you brought up the book that, that we all read together, bittersweet by Susan Cain because she puts into words, I think like sometimes we feel the pain and we need words for it. We need context. We need to be able to do something with that. And the words that she puts in that book are so helpful and they go along so brilliantly with the storyline because it’s the thing that helps us make connections.
So we’re not trying to like remove, like scrub everything clean.
[Peya] Right. But understanding.
[Mary] But understanding it and putting it into
[00:42:00] a less stabby place. I know. Just a pokey, just a gentle pokey. Gentle pokey. So that you understand your boundaries and you know the context of where everything came from. And, you know, in a couple generations the kids in that Jackson commune, I mean, as long as they don’t get infected.
[Peya] This will be a story that somebody tells their kid, and not like some spooky story that someone tells. And they’re like, did that happen? Is that real? Yeah, that’s why these walls are built, like this junior.
[Mary] We get told stories like that, about like way back in the day, when online business was starting.
And, but the, but the rules have changed.
[Peya] Because we’re changing them. Some, some of us are adapting. Some of us are finding ways forward and to make all of this sustainable. And some of us are not. Some of us are sheep waiting for their shepherd. Waiting for Joel
[00:43:00] to come and his resentment to come be a shepherd.
[Mary] So here’s, here’s an interesting thing. Some of us are sheep, some of us are shepherds. I feel like… A lot of our business community are people who are like the equivalent of living in quarantine zones, QZs, letting some new militia government tell them what to do, and following all of those rules.
[Peya] But it’s all fear.
[Mary] But it’s so fear based. And then you’ve got your outliers, the people, like that old couple who like left civilization years ago. They were my favorite. I love them. He’s like, you fed them soup? Yeah, it’s cold.
[Peya] The fact that she was rocking in her chair the entire time, she was so unbothered. Of course I fed them.
The fuck? Why wouldn’t I feed them? I was also hungry. Why didn’t you shoot them? The gun’s over there. Bitch, who was getting up for that? For what?
[Mary] I feel like there are outliers like that in our world. But I feel like
[00:44:00] what we’re all really looking for is that gated community.
[Peya] We’re looking for Jackson. I, that’s what I’m looking for right now.
I’m looking for Jackson.
[Mary] I’m looking for it too. I’m hoping our conversation helps.
[Peya] I mean, the, what you’re building, you’re kind of doing that already because who, who’s equating business to the last of us? No one.
[Mary] No one but me.
[Peya] Right.
[Mary] And you. And a ton of other people.
[Peya] A ton of other people. And it made complete, when you came to us with this idea, this made complete sense.
We were like, oh, of course. Yeah. And every time we’re watching, you know when this started? Welcome to Wrexham. That’s when this started.
[Mary] It did.
[Peya] Yeah. It did. Because the way, the way we were inspired to just talk to each other through a business lens about the show. That’s where, that was your origin story.
[Mary] Well, that one was really easy to do too because, I mean, They are businessmen who are doing a business project. It just happens to be.
[Peya] I don’t see the difference. I mean, I
[00:45:00] feel like surviving an apocalypse is also a business. Just a different kind.
[Mary] It is completely a business. I mean, Joel and Tess are entrepreneurs.
They’re smugglers, but they’re entrepreneurs. They make money. He’s making deals in alleys, but he’s making a lot of money. Yeah. Businesses everywhere.
[Peya] Somebody’s running that movie theater in Jackson. Totally. Somebody’s setting up those festivals. There’s a community manager in there for sure.
[Mary] Tommy’s making bacon and booze.
He was so surprised when the booze was good. Like shook him.
[Mary] Because they’ve been drinking shitty booze in the QZ.
[Peya] Yeah, but that’s when he also said like my least favorite, I think the most triggering thing for me in this episode when he’s like, I’m your brother. And I was like, well, that’s your mom, that’s your sister, and we hear that all the time and it’s just a way to guilt us into reliving or continuing systems that aren’t working for us, that we know aren’t working for us.
And I was like, oh, fucking Joel, why would you
[00:46:00] say that?
[Mary] Well, that’s your coach.
[Peya] Gross.
[Mary] That’s your mentor.
[Peya] Right. And that’s why we build walls. Some of us higher and more spikier than others.
[Mary] I’m going to be so curious to see how our business community continues to evolve because you and I have been talking about Discord.
You got me onto Discord. You got me to move my entire team.
[Peya] I love Discord.
[Mary] I fucking love Discord.
[Peya] It’s just so easy and you can mute what you don’t want.
[Mary] It’s so easy to communicate.
[Peya] Discord should sponsor you.
[Mary] I’m working on it. Hey, discord. Hi .
[Peya] It’s just, it’s such a lovely platform. It’s, it’s why we like, we love Notion so much Notion.
[Mary] I, but they’re all decentralized. We’re talking Web3 tools. They’re all decentralized. They’re not on social platforms. Um, and I don’t see them ever going that way. The business model doesn’t really,
[Peya] I would sad
[Mary] at the moment, doesn’t seem to support that.
[Peya] You have no choice but to be creative in these spaces.
Nothing is pre-built for you, you. It’s like, hey, here’s this
[00:47:00] desert. Build your Jackson.
[Mary] Well, there’s no algorithm. So you actually have to be, like, show up and do what you do. You can’t copy.
[Peya] Remember when we used to do that? When we used to show up places? And now everything is, like, pre scheduled and pre whatever.
It’s still nice on some occasions, but at some point there needs to be a human there.
[Mary] There really does.
[Peya] Discord forces you to be, besides that you can, it’s insta memes in there. It’s built in.
[Mary] This is so good.
[Peya] I can only communicate via memes and emojis.
[Mary] My love language is memes love, as you know. Yeah. . I will answer you in a gif.
Yes. I say gif, not gif.
[Peya] There’s so many good ones in there.
[Mary] A lot of really good ones from The Last of Us Know too.
[Peya] My favorite are the Parks and Rec ones in there.
[Mary] That’s a good, oh maybe that will be one of your feature season. There’s so many good shows. There’s so many good shows that you could do this.
[Mary] I’m pretty sure I know what we’re going to do after this.
[Peya] That’s exciting.
[00:48:00] Do you want to share?
[Mary] Uh, yes. I think we might do a little warmup with Welcome to Wrexham and move right on into Ted Lasso.
[Peya] I’ve never seen that.
[Mary] You will love it.
[Mary] Two people are currently yelling at me to watch that and I’ve never seen it.
[Mary] Well, I’ll be the third. Unless I was already one of the two. I feel like for people who really get into talking about business in the way we’re doing right now, The Last of Us is honestly a heavy show.
[Peya] Yeah. Okay.
[Mary] I mean, it’s dramatic. It’s dramatic, right? It’s not Parks and Rec.
[Peya] I’ll give you that.
[Mary] So I feel like the next thing needs to be a little lighter.
[Peya] I think the more people venture out to do this, though, I mean, I’ve, I’ve told you this before, we’re big on everybody could be an entrepreneur because literally everyone can do this and the more things like this happen where people can relate it to something that’s theirs, they’ll be like, oh, that’s an option.
Like my daughter has no idea what driving to work means because she doesn’t see that that’s not her example.
[Mary] No, there’s no context.
[Peya] I’m in pajamas and sometimes a nice shirt sitting on a zoom box in a zoom box.
[Mary] I feel like so many people struggle to explain what lights them up in a simple question.
Like what are you watching right now? I’ve watched it… Sounds very dramatic to say it but it’s the way they appear on their face in front of me when it happens that they seem to like fall to their knees and they’re like I don’t have an answer for that. And I’m like, we are whole, complete human beings.
[Peya] Beyond this. Beyond what group you’re a part of or what mastermind you’re in. There’s other things. We’re trying to describe ourselves in an elevator pitch, in a 20 second, I serve X by blah, blah, blah.
[Mary] Yeah.
[Peya] And I hate that because I’m, and I think that’s why I’ve always struggled with that question where who’s your ideal client?
Bitch, it’s everybody who can pay me.
[00:50:00] It depends what you need. Do you, do you need what I have? If not, then you’re not my ideal client. That’s how I answer that. And people are just like, oh, you can’t answer that? Then I can’t work with you. Okay, well, I mean, shuffle on then.
[Mary] Are you less stabby? That should be the question.
[Peya] Me? Hmm.
[Mary] No, not you, but people who come to you. The question is like, are you less stabby?
[Peya] On a scale of one… It’s like, like band aids to stitches. How stabby are you?
[Mary] Okay, so I have a question for you then. Sure. Um, now that you’ve watched the whole season in obviously your episode, what does a show like this, what does The Last of Us reflect back to you about yourself?
Everything is complicated. Everything. There is no sure answer to anything because it really depends where, and my episode just happens to be perfection at explaining that because you’re seeing the same situation. Through the lens of five different people at one time, and it’s like, oh yeah, this is fucked up.
There’s no way. I think the experience of this and watching this is
[00:51:00] that, I mean, you really could just do it your own way. You can figure it out. You can be that couple who only knows about the river of the dead, and chills in their house and eats bunnies for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, probably. Or you can be Joel and put yourself in a…
situation to do more than just survive in, in a place. You have to know who you are. I think a little bit more. You have to dig into who you are to see what you’re willing to tolerate. And that’s how you show, show up like for real as yourself. People always talking about authenticity and then they do exactly like they describe it perfectly.
And then they’re like, right, but I’m going to go this way and maybe just actually be who you are. That’s what it reflects. It gave me permission, more permission, because I have been on this journey of like getting permission to be myself. So it’s given me more permission. And this is based on a video game.
And I’m a gamer. So this gave me way more permission to just be
[00:52:00] like, Fuck it, I’ll try it. And if it doesn’t work, I’ll try something else. It’s fine.
[Mary] I love it. You’re demonstrating how you’re carving out your own little corner of the country.
[Peya] Yep.
[Mary] Well, Peya, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.
[Peya] Thanks for having me. This was fun. Thanks for doing all the homework. Gosh. It was a lot of homework, just in case anyone has ever asked. FYI. It is not, it is not a watch this episode out of, it’s not that. It was fun, but it was like a lot. It was a lot. And there was extra credit.
[Mary] The extra credit is hanging out together, which we will do again very soon.
[Peya] The extra credit was fun.
[Mary] Well, thank you for coming. I will see you soon on the mic. I’m sure you’ll be back before long.
[Peya] Maybe. Who knows?
This has been the official School of Moxie podcast with your host, Mary Williams and special guest, Peya Robbins. The show is written and produced by Mary Williams. Chris Martin from Chris Martin Studios is our editor and the sound engineer for this episode. The
[00:53:00] episode was recorded in Vancouver, Washington at the CoLab Coworking space. Additional marketing support is provided by The AK Collective, founded by Amber Kinney.
I’m Mary Williams, your host and the founder of Sensible Woo. You can watch the HBO original series The Last of Us on As a librarian, I will always encourage you to check out the companion book Bittersweet by Susan Cain at your local library. You can find this show wherever you listen to podcasts and all of the links to resources, guest information, and anything else we might reference in an episode are in the show notes.
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